Curse

Avarre · Feb 13, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

I do have a question though, Avarre. The "lose 1 energy for every evade" makes me hestitant to really rely on Distortion, so I usually go for the PhysResist+Feast combo for def+heal. Does Distortion every really make a significant drain in your energy?

Not in the slightest. In PvE, you're not going to be hit much. The only times I use distortion is when there is a serious aggro break, such as Abyssals (they can kill you faster than any other mob in fow), shadow rangers (sometimes I kill them with empathy while evading their shots), Aatxes (distort will save you where phy res wont here) and other situations. It doesn't mean you'll stop and face any attacker, renewing the stance like Dunahm does. If under attack, kite like hell, using distort if the situation calls for it.

Depending on the capabilities of my tank, I somtimes swap distortion on my usual build for SV. I have never relied on distort to stay alive, but when 4 shadow rangers target you, or 2 abyssals hit you at once, it will save your life. When PuGing, I almost always bring distort to stay alive in the face of aggro loss.

For soloing, it depends on my build. A normal hp build will often use phy res, whereas my 55hp builds sometimes uses distortion (for mobs that have physical and magical attacks, so I don't lose any energy

)

Draracle · Feb 13, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Yeah, you aren't going to go tanking with distortion, it is your parachute when the agro falls apart. Of course, if you have pts in inspiration, Spirit of Failure will give you all your energy back. Also, I have used Sig of Midnight / Plague Sending as an anti-melee build. Although you can't blind everyone, you can blind a large number of enemy and that will protect the whole team, not just you. The monk should be able to handle the remaining dmg. Also, with Spirit of Failure, you are an energy machine. You do, however, give up your elite.

johnactor · Feb 14, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

some great builds here and i'm getting excited about starting a pure mes sometime soon. Didn't know that there was a value to 55hp mesmer though, i thought that was monk spec for soloing. Can you elaborate?

Thanks

Avarre · Feb 14, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

http://www.guildwarsguru.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=91600

55hp mesmer thread, for UW and has some other builds in later posts for other mobs like hydras etc.

Warskull · Feb 15, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Mesmers have issues in PvE for a number of reasons.

First, the henchmen AI is complete and total crap. If you target hop rapidly (to spread hexes ect.) the henchmen all start attacking random things. Since they have have very poor damage output (the cultist is really the best one) nothing dies unless they focus fire. Thus with an all henchmen group you have to babysit the henchmen and function at a fraction of what you could normally do. A lot of other classes can just attack one target until it dies on move on to the next fairly well.

Second, mesmers can't carry teams very well. You can delay the inevitable by disabling some big enemy monsters. However if you have a bad monk you are still going to die and if you bad damage output you are still going to have trouble killing things. You can do an awesome job shutting down enemy healing, diverting half their skills, interrupting their attacks, ect. If the rest of your team is gimp all your effort is wasted.

Third, PvE design is very anti-mesmer for most of the game. They just create 50 trolls and have you swing at them until they are dead. For a majority of the game brute force far is the easiest and probably best way to go about things. A mesmers abilities don't really shine until you hit the desert area. Even past there mob design is downright pathetic at points.

Fourth, Mesmers are the worst understood class in the game on the PvE side of things. The mesmer class is complex. A lot of people will think "What good does shutting down 1 skill for 60 seconds do?" In addition mesmer abilities are very subtle and unless you know what to look for you won't see what the mesmer is actually doing. To add to this, there are a lot of horrible PvE players. They have given mesmers a bad name in PvE. Most of the other classes have some generic build where you can still be of some use, even if you are braindead (Generic 5 energy spam heal monk, stance tank warrior with a sword, fire nuker, minion master.) Players who run these builds aren't necessarily good, but can do something. A bad mesmer isn't going to contribute much at all. Mesmers are not so straight forward, you actually have to think about the 8 skills on your bar.

Through the early part of the game I suggest pumping illusion and just spamming conjur phantasm for the most part. It does 10dmg for each second it lasts. If you put it on as many targets as possible when your team finishes working over one enemy the rest should be under half health and easily mopped up. You can take backfire for casters, but really just brute forcing it with conjur works very well. Use some inspiration skills to fuel your conjur spam. You will notice a lot of pure attacking enemies early game. Conjur is quite effective vs anything early on.

Given a good mesmer and good teammates who can actually take advantage of your abilities, the enemy crumble with easy.

Divine Elemental · Feb 15, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

Mesmers have issues in PvE for a number of reasons.

First, the henchmen AI is complete and total crap. If you target hop rapidly (to spread hexes ect.) the henchmen all start attacking random things. Since they have have very poor damage output (the cultist is really the best one) nothing dies unless they focus fire. Thus with an all henchmen group you have to babysit the henchmen and function at a fraction of what you could normally do. A lot of other classes can just attack one target until it dies on move on to the next fairly well.

Second, mesmers can't carry teams very well. You can delay the inevitable by disabling some big enemy monsters. However if you have a bad monk you are still going to die and if you bad damage output you are still going to have trouble killing things. You can do an awesome job shutting down enemy healing, diverting half their skills, interrupting their attacks, ect. If the rest of your team is gimp all your effort is wasted.

Third, PvE design is very anti-mesmer for most of the game. They just create 50 trolls and have you swing at them until they are dead. For a majority of the game brute force far is the easiest and probably best way to go about things. A mesmers abilities don't really shine until you hit the desert area. Even past there mob design is downright pathetic at points.

Fourth, Mesmers are the worst understood class in the game on the PvE side of things. The mesmer class is complex. A lot of people will think "What good does shutting down 1 skill for 60 seconds do?" In addition mesmer abilities are very subtle and unless you know what to look for you won't see what the mesmer is actually doing. To add to this, there are a lot of horrible PvE players. They have given mesmers a bad name in PvE. Most of the other classes have some generic build where you can still be of some use, even if you are braindead (Generic 5 energy spam heal monk, stance tank warrior with a sword, fire nuker, minion master.) Players who run these builds aren't necessarily good, but can do something. A bad mesmer isn't going to contribute much at all. Mesmers are not so straight forward, you actually have to think about the 8 skills on your bar.

Through the early part of the game I suggest pumping illusion and just spamming conjur phantasm for the most part. It does 10dmg for each second it lasts. If you put it on as many targets as possible when your team finishes working over one enemy the rest should be under half health and easily mopped up. You can take backfire for casters, but really just brute forcing it with conjur works very well. Use some inspiration skills to fuel your conjur spam. You will notice a lot of pure attacking enemies early game. Conjur is quite effective vs anything early on.

Given a good mesmer and good teammates who can actually take advantage of your abilities, the enemy crumble with easy.

Damn warskull >_>

Avarre · Feb 15, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Warskull summed up most of what has been said in the mesmer discussion threads quite well.

Conjure is terrible skill anywhere late into the game btw, especially in places like FoW (and every other mesmer I see brings that skill...

SnipiousMax · Feb 15, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I used to use Chaos Storm all the time with my first character, a R/Me...before the infamous/brilliant AoE nerf. Its kinda funny to think about now. Amazing how things change.

Rayne Nightfyre · Feb 15, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

I agree with Warskull as well, it's sad to see my favorite profession's reputation constantly being put down. But I'm hoping once Factions comes out, Mesmers will gain a bit more recognition!

lol, by the way

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Conjure is terrible skill anywhere late into the game btw, especially in places like FoW (and every other mesmer I see brings that skill...

Anywhere later in the game, I don't

There's many skills in a Mesmer's arsenal that are more effective than simple HP degen. Enemies simply have too high of HP for the -5 degen to do much. But for newer Mesmers out there, seriously give consideration to using the combo of Domination and Illusion, they work together amazingly.

beginners_luck · Feb 15, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

If you stop wanting to kill stuff with a mesmer, and instead try and make the mission a walk in the park for the rest of your group (which is why curses are incredible to supplement mesmer stuff with, btw) then you're doing a good job as a mesmer. I wouldn't even bother with curses if mesmers had more AoE skills.

Warskull · Feb 16, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Unfortunately with the way A.net has handled PvE so far, I don't think factions will be much better designed. A mesmer needs well designed, mixed mobs to shine.

Draracle · Feb 16, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Yeah, If I face a solid group of warriors, or even a group with only one caster, I lose a fair bit of power. I do deal out a lot of dmg to warriors/rangers (no less than normal) but my caster skills go to waste. With the other classes, it usually won't matter what enemy you face, your skills will work on everyone. MM have the a similar problem facing undead and non-fleshies. Often I find myself wishing that the group didn't attack the monk first... I want to mess with his head a little before he dies.

zeroxy · Aug 07, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I've seen this complaint in another mesmer build. Saying "I dont' feel like I'm doing much for my team".

GO fig... PURE MESMER DOESN'T WORK IN PVE...

Use Necro curses. They're AoE and can pretty much nullify any and all mobs that surround a single teammate [aka a smart warrior...]

There isn't a single set of mesmer magic skills in any of their lines that can take out several slammer non-caster enemies at once. Soothing Images doesn't cut it if the enemy hits for 200+ to begin with [Aataxe anyone?]

Shadow of Fear + Enfeebling Blood = a mob that a monk could tank...

Bringing in Insidious Parasite with Empathy and maybe Spiteful Spirit can help bring the mob to its knees...

You've never tried ineptitude + epidemic have you?
Oni of the deep really hate me because of that combo

Avarre · Aug 07, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Oni of the deep hate you for casting Ressurect Thread too.

><!

Though I'm sure some post-faction insight could be added now.

zeroxy · Aug 07, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Oni of the deep hate you for casting Ressurect Thread too.

><!

Though I'm sure some post-faction insight could be added now.

I searched for something and this thread was on the second page, I don't know why but I thought this was on the second page of the mesmer forums lol!

Hella Good · Aug 07, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I think the biggest issue with PvE Mesmers is the tendency for things to be in big packs where AoE is called for for fast handling. My biggest success in PvE has been with condition spreading (with Epidemic), Dom (with Shatter Hex and Cry of Frustration), and FC spiker.

SnipiousMax · Aug 07, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Conjure + Images of Remorse + Mantra of Persistance + elite energy management, is very effective late game in my mind. Most effective? Hardly, but it's very easy to run, and it's something that's more easily recognized by your group.

Shatter Hex is quickly becoming one of my favorite dom skills. The damage potential is huge, worthwhile even on only one target.

I'm not so sure about running both Dom and Illusion anymore. I've grown too attached to an elite Inspiration energy management (and drain enchant!).

Carth` · Aug 08, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigernz

Arcane Thievery & Diversion work great later on when you start fighting the tougher enemies (especially monk bosses)

I thought this too, but PvE enemies cheat. I use diversion on them and they cast the same spell again. They have 2 or 3 copies of it on their skill bar.